Episode Transcript
The Finance Ghost: Welcome to episode 215 of Magic Markets. My longtime friend, co-host, partner, whatever you want to call him, Moe, is forcing me to work on my birthday. We can decide if we're going to forgive him for that or not. I think I'll forgive him and you can decide for yourself. At least we're doing a really interesting topic this week - not that our other topics are not interesting, but we've never done a show on art, and that's because I think, Moe, you and I would struggle to draw a stick man. Actually, I say that - I've been thoroughly enjoying taking up Warhammer as a hobby and that forces me to get a lot better at painting miniatures. So that's actually been quite fun. But that barely counts as art, I think. Moe, how good is your art, actually? Is it as bad as I suspect it is?
Mohammed Nalla: Ghost firstly, happy birthday. I think you took the wind out of my sails by announcing I'm making you work on your birthday. But I know you…
The Finance Ghost: …I'm just trying to make you feel bad, really.
Mohammed Nalla: I know you love our podcast enough to be doing this on your birthday. If I recall, I think I worked on my birthday last year as well, on a Magic Markets podcast.
How good is my art? I'm the kind of person - when you see bananas that are actually duct taped to a wall, I think that's me. You know, when I see those things happening and people really taking an interest in that, I think…
The Finance Ghost: Well that’s sellable then. That's sellable. Nothing wrong.
Mohammed Nalla: I have a chance. I have a chance as an artist. No, not good at all. Stick man kind of drawing person here.
The Finance Ghost: Okay, so it's very much as I suspected. It's lucky that we have someone on the show then who can talk about art with some degree of skill and ability and certainly experience. Tristanne Farrell is a Senior Investment Manager at Investec Wealth and Investment International. The Investec Cape Town Art Fair was a couple of weeks ago in Cape Town. I always go every year. I really, really enjoy it, genuinely. This might or might not have something to do with my partner who is an artist, but I have enjoyed getting to know that world, without a doubt. Tristanne, can you paint, draw or throw bananas at the wall? Or is it very much about collecting other people's talents here?
Tristanne Farrell: So thanks, Moe and Ghost, for having me on your show today. I'm quite excited about this. I have attempted to paint and draw in my previous life, maybe at school, but I don't think I was very good at it. And I haven't tried to throw a banana at a wall yet. But I'm sure there are various mediums we could try. But I'm just an avid collector, so it's a passion that's a little bit out of control. And I love going to the galleries, I love supporting, supporting young artists and I love being part of this world that I'm not really entirely creative myself, but I appreciate the arts as they are.
The Finance Ghost: Oh, that's the right way to do it. That's a very, very cool way to do it. And I think of all the passions to have, that's got to be one of the better ones.
Of course, what we're here to talk about today is not your favourite artist and what kind of art you buy, although you're welcome to make those references, but more whether art can be an investment that actually rivals your typical traditional alternatives. I used to have a classic Alfa Romeo that I loved to death. I had to sell it eventually, but that ticked up with the value of inflation - actually, it did slightly better than inflation because I restored it myself. It ended up being a pretty decent investment. Of course, the cool thing was I could drive my investment over Franschhoek Pass. The same can't be said for my shares. I can only open my share portfolio this week in particular and see how far down they are, thanks to what's going on in the world. You can't frame your shares, you can't hand them on the wall, but you can do that with your art.
Is that enough from an art perspective, or can they be investments that can actually rival some of these shares as well? Or are they just pretty things on the wall?
Tristanne Farrell: I think it's two-part - you're either a collector that collects for investment or you're a collector that collects for the love of it. I know a lot of collectors who don't even sell, so they collect purely for the love of it. If you sell, you actually struggle to lose that work because you love it so much. I'm not going to advise on you buying art as an investment asset class, but I think like everything in life, it's balancing your overall portfolio. Like you said, you have a car, you've got shares, you might have watches, everything moves in cycles. I think if you're doing it from an investment perspective, the first thing you'd look for is liquidity in the market. If you buy an artist, if it's an up-and-coming artist, you could compare it to a small cap share where you may not have the liquidity. In a few years, you might have the liquidity, but you might not have it immediately. Whereas if you pay up for a well-known artist that has traction, a track record, a secondary market appeal, then you might get that liquidity and you could make something off that.
Mohammed Nalla: Tristanne, I think that's fantastic. I'm not the complete Luddite when it comes to art. I try and follow some of the trends that are happening, hence the banana reference. Incidentally, I also find it interesting. Ghost has an artist as a partner. My wife, she's also into art, she loves art. And I think that maybe goes well with us financial types versus a nice counterbalance on the creative side of things. Now, why I also like this conversation is many years ago, when I was still working down at one of the banks in South Africa, I used to have an elderly gentleman from Cape Town who subsequently passed, unfortunately. But he used to always tell me in this very gravelly voice, he used to say: “Mohammed, you can't just invest in shares. You've got to actually buy yourself some good art.” You know, it was literally like that.
Tristanne Farrell: Good advice!
The Finance Ghost: And delivered as such a great rendition. I don't know why you don't do that voice all the time!
Mohammed Nalla: I mean, the thing is, back then and even now, the thing that's really not clear to me, and probably not clear to a lot of listeners on the podcast, is what's the right way to go about purchasing art as an investment? How accessible is this? Because we've seen recent trends around NFTs and digital tokens and all of this, but that's not the kind of art we're talking about now. We're talking about pretty art you can hang on your wall, but that's also potentially an investment. How do we go about buying that and what is the role of the Investec Cape Town Art Fair in that overall ecosystem?
Tristanne Farrell: I always say: buy what you love because you've got to live with it. You can get that immediate return or it'll be a delayed return, but you've actually got to have it in your home - like Ghost, he's showing me things in the background there. That's your personal choice in your home, right? I think you need to educate yourself in the space. I started out buying and then I actually started all over again because I got it wrong from day one, for about 12 months and I didn't like what I had and I wasn't enjoying it. I scrapped it, started again.
I think going to galleries on Saturday morning, seeing new shows when you have time, just going into these spaces. I know a lot of people find art galleries quite intimidating as spaces to enter. I was there as well. I was also quite scared. But now I know the gallerists, I know the directors and I just walk in and you chat to people and they are actually the friendliest people who are just so excited to share their new shows and information about the artists with you. Don't be scared, I think is the big thing.
I read a lot of art books because I love art books and it can be local or international artists. I find it easier to get international books versus local books. I go to the Michaelis grad show, so when they have the graduate show once a year, I like going to see who's coming out of those schools and then also maybe monitor your artists. If I buy a young artist, and I do buy a lot of young, up-and-coming artists, I'll follow them on Instagram, I'll Google them from time to time. I'll see what they're up to, where they're headed, just monitor what their career path looks like. I think that's probably a good guideline.
Then the one piece of good advice someone gave me once upon a time was to write a list of 10 artists you'd like to own and try and stick to that and changes from time to time, but at least you've got a guideline. Otherwise, you spread yourself all over the place and you want to buy everything and every show you go to, you want to own that artist. Try and have a bit of focus when you start collecting.
The Finance Ghost: So every single year at the Investec Cape Town Art Fair, I find something that I like. It’s just an eye-watering amount of money that is just out of reach and not possible at this stage in my life. And maybe one day when I'm big - then without fail, every year that thing has gone up. So it's three from three or two from two, rather, I should say. If I look back over the last couple of years, something I liked then just became even more expensive. Maybe I have an eye for things I can't afford, which I then can't afford to an even greater extent the following year. So maybe when I do, eventually…
Tristanne Farrell: I know a bank that'll lend you money for those opportunities. So just shout…
The Finance Ghost: Don't tell me that Investec will lend me money to buy art. That is the last thing then that I need to find out about this world. Don't do that. And I bank with Investec, so that would be frighteningly easy. So rather not, truly. But maybe you can convince me on the investment returns, because I think if this thing just goes up with inflation, as you pointed out, you're buying something you love, you're putting it on the wall. It's a very nice way, bluntly, to spend your money. It just really is, right?
You're beautifying your home, your environment, you're meeting people. It's a very cool way to have something interesting. I see a lot of overlap with the classic car world that I spent a lot of time and money in and really enjoyed it. No regrets, but those things are not easy to own. Classic cars are a big commitment and eventually I just got too busy. You can't really put your kids in them. So you reach a point in your life, I think when you have young kids, where classic cars are just a little bit too difficult. That's kind of where I am at the moment. Art is a bit different. Art lives on the wall, but it's got other considerations, right? There's storage, there's insurance. There's all these things you need to think about.
Not too dissimilar to buying physical gold. Moe did a webinar earlier this week. Go back and listen to last week's show with Mesh Trade about gold and how you can buy a fractionalised share of a Krugerrand. It's pretty interesting. That's obviously trying to solve for that issue of storage and safety and everything else. People might want to look at their Krugerrands occasionally, but I think people especially want to look at their art, so I don't think any of us want to buy a fractional piece of an artwork that lives somewhere else. Although maybe that market does exist. I don't know. I suppose anything's possible. It does, I'm sure on Blockchain, Moe's nodding at me wildly.
Mohammed Nalla: It does. I'm nodding, I'm nodding. So, I mean, there are a couple of funds I've seen up here in North America that do the whole fractional ownership thing. You'd find that insanely pricey piece of art that you and I just only aspire to own. Those are then bought up by these funds, effectively, that allow fractional ownership. That's the reason why I'm nodding. It takes away from the aesthetic, though. Tristanne is really so passionate about this. You can see it in part of the discussion, educating yourself about the artist. For me, that's almost too financial, because that's just a financial element, which is fine. Some people might just want to invest in it for the financials. I'm the kind of person where I like to look at it, I want to put it on the wall. I want that softer return over a period of time because that makes it a richer experience.
But yeah, that's the reason why I was nodding, is you do actually get that fractional ownership. I don't know if you get it down in South Africa, but I certainly have seen it up here in North America.
The Finance Ghost: Tristanne will know, if anyone will know, if we get that. But I think for most people listening to this, they want to put something on the wall. Obviously it's going to depend hugely, right? If you go and buy the perfect upcoming artist, you can get venture capital level returns. If you go and buy the wrong thing, you can lose a lot of money and cross the bid-offer spread at your local gallery and get a fright. I have no doubt of these things.
So, any insights I guess that you can give us, Tristanne, into the kind of numbers you're talking here? Typical returns over time, storage, insurance. How does it really work from an Excel perspective? Not the prettiness on the wall.
Tristanne Farrell: So maybe going back to your gold reference, gold as an asset for the last 12 months has been the best performing asset class, giving you a 40% - I think it was up 40% or strengthened 40% in the last 12 months. If you had made a 40% return on your investment and given up 2% in costs, you actually wouldn't mind.
But in terms of storage, I've used storage once and it wasn't too bad in terms of ongoing for a 12- or 24-month period. You need to store art properly because you run the risk of damaging and all those sorts of things. I would advise, if you are moving house or you want to store your collection, do it properly with the renowned art storage company. The insurance cost is where you do get slipped up a little bit because that costs - if you itemise all your art, and I actually went through this exercise recently, it does add up to a hell of a lot. I'm still weighing up in my head if it's worth it or not, because I always go, if I had to lose that artwork, I can't replace that exact artwork. That's the piece I love, that's the artist I like. I'd have money in the bank, but I'd need to go source all those really amazing pieces that I'd sourced over the years.
I don't know - it's a catch 22 where you want to cover that cost because it is an investment, and your collection can grow quite out of control to a point where you can be invested for a few hundred thousand or a few million. Speaking from experience and other clients I know who have invested. I think maybe it's a personal choice. I think at the end of the day of how much you want to cover. For me, I don't want to cover my whole collection because I know I can't replace what I have.
The Finance Ghost: You can get a few hundred grand just with two trips to the Investec Cape Town Art Fair based on some of what I've seen, and easily over a million as well. And then what sort of returns? Are you trying to just beat inflation? Is it like an “I just want to sleep at night” kind of thing? You referenced gold there and how strong that has been in the last 12 months. Can art do those kind of returns? I mean, are there art indices that track this kind of stuff?
Tristanne Farrell: Sure. I think some people have tried to put together art funds before, but they haven't worked really well. And I think it boiled down to: do you buy the physical art? Is there storage cost? How do you embed that in your fees? It becomes quite technical. I know a few houses have tried it, so I don't think they're any existing. But in terms of returns, your returns can be anything. I've got one work that's probably given me 8,000% as a return from what I paid, but I'd never sell it because I love it.
You can buy young artists that are starting out for a few - I can talk about one artist, was Brett Seiler, who we recently did a podcast with on Art and Focus, and we spoke to him on our last one, and his work was selling for a few hundred rand when he was in Joburg. It's selling for a few thousand rand when he was in Cape Town. And now you can buy it at Everard Read for R250,000 to half a million rand. It just shows the trajectory of an artist's career.
Mohammed Nalla: Yeah, I'm just exclaiming here because, imagine you had picked up Brett Seller at a couple of hundred bucks in Joburg! Look, anything in Joburg is probably worth less than it is in Cape Town! Jokes aside, I think there's certain analogues between gold, which, as Ghost has indicated, I spoke about very recently, I know a lot of people that collect jewelry, and they don't collect it because it's gold or whatever it is. They collect it because they get these customised pieces. I'm not talking of your usual off-the-shelf types of pieces. I'm talking about stuff that they design, they conceptualise in their heads, and they have a professional jeweler make this up. And for me, that's actually art. It's just not a painting, but it's actually a type of art.
I think that interplay between a collector of gold, a collector of classic cars, as Ghost has actually indicated, as well as art - the traditional art, paintings on a wall, that kind of thing - those interplays all exist simply because of how people conceptualize this n their minds.
Now, Tristanne, you've indicated to us how that life cycle of an artist is quite something to behold. You've indicated how Brett has a good case study, the value actually has increased immensely. One additional question to that. Is it often the case that the values go up once the artist is passed on? Is that a supply and demand thing at play? How does that actually work? And then at the other end of the spectrum, how does it work when you're buying art from this up-and-coming artist? How do you identify someone like a Brett Seiler? I'd love to buy a hundred bucks and then put it on my wall, enjoy it for all of those years, and then have the ability to monetise it? Maybe I'm not as emotional. I'd want to monetise it if it's gone up to that extent, right?
Tristanne Farrell: Yeah, 100%. I think it's a hard one, because if an artist dies, it is a demand and supply thing that kicks in, generally speaking. So artists will die, then everyone assumes there's no more art to come to the market and the prices go up on the secondary market and auctions and then that artist becomes in high demand. But then sometimes you'll see private collections start to offload. Then you realise how much art there actually is in the market. Maybe this artist produced thousands of works in their lifetime and not hundreds that you thought, and suddenly the market becomes quite full.
So it is a cyclical thing. And I've seen it with one or two artists that I had been watching historically in the secondary markets. I monitor a lot of the results on the Strauss website or other auction houses like Aspire, and artists like Cecil Skotness was one. When he passed away, prices went up, but they subsided and there seems to be a lot of the work coming to market now. I love the artists, but I look for the cycles and I look for the dips and then I'll buy in the weaker parts of the market. Another one is Robert Hodgins. When he passed away, there was a lot of work that came to market. Those prices seem to have lifted again, but they did have a little bit of a downturn as well. Again, like I say, it's cyclical and market related.
The Finance Ghost: It feels like buying small caps. It's like buying baskets of call options on small caps. It's this totally asymmetrical market - not to say that small caps are, but my point being is worse than small caps. The closest thing you'll get in equities is a small cap. But actually this is much harder than that because you don't have perfect information. No two artworks are the same. I mean, one might do incredibly well, one doesn't.
Tristanne Farrell: And an artist could stop working.
The Finance Ghost: Yeah, that too.
Tristanne Farrell: An artist, like your partner, you said is an artist. She could decide she's not an artist tomorrow and get a job in corporate. And then you've backed this artist that's never producing again.
The Finance Ghost: Well, she's the other way around, luckily. She's had to do the job in corporate in the hope of one day getting to actually practice what she loves. So maybe we'll go the other way around there and that'll be pretty awesome.
I guess the other thing that artists can dish out as well is if they're quite political - does it ever happen where you've put a lot of money behind an artist, and then they get themselves, shall we say, cancelled - not in a good sense, not in a way that actually endears them to a market of collectors. I mean, does that kind of thing happen?
I'm just thinking of what's happening right now with Tesla and Elon Musk. Love him or hate him, he's a polarising guy. And it's causing chaos in the Tesla share price. It really is.
Tristanne Farrell: I think you do back a person at the end of the day. I think straight to that point, it does reflect on the artwork, what they're producing, the gallery who represents them. So it can have a negative connotation. But I think most of the time in the experience I've had, a lot of the artists aren't overly outspoken. Some of them will share personal views on Instagram and social media. I think you may lose a few followers along the way, but generally the practice doesn't change too much, so people will carry on with them.
The Finance Ghost: If they can just write their views in the way they describe the artworks. No one will understand what they are saying anyway. And then they can't be cancelled! Because I've read those whole beautiful descriptions at the Investec Cape Town Art Fair. And I read it and I read it again and I read it again, and then I just go, okay, cool, yeah, no, it's pretty. And I move on to the next one. Clearly too much of a simpleton for this.
Tristanne Farrell: So did you actually buy anything at the fair? You never said if you actually followed through in any of those.
The Finance Ghost: No, I've done it three years in a row. The thing I wanted to buy, I can't afford. So then I go away and I just work harder for 12 months, and then I go back and of course that thing is gone and you don't get the chance to buy it again. But to be honest, I really just enjoy going. I just think it's great to see the variety of stuff. Sometimes I walk past artworks and I'm surprised that that's the artwork and not just part of the shop fitting of that area. That's some of the more contemporary art, obviously. Some of the more traditional stuff - it's just cool. I just appreciate how different everything is. There's always something that I remember and that makes me smile. And it's just a fun - it's just a fun day out. The Investec Cape Town Art Fair really is great.
Tristanne Farrell: I loved it. Do you want to know what I bought at the fair?
The Finance Ghost: Yes, tell us.
Tristanne Farrell: So, I splashed out a little bit because I paced myself to the fair, because I'm known for spending my budget before I get to the fair because I get too excited. And I ended up buying, actually, a Mia Chaplin. I've been monitoring her career for a long time, and she does like these - it's thick, impasto oil, renaissance-type paintings. I totally love her work, so I invested in one of those.
The Finance Ghost: I know frighteningly little about art. But I will tell you, my favourite thing is those thick impasto oils. That's exactly my favorite thing. It was a Nigel Mullins that I wanted the year before, and it was sold already. That is absolutely my vibe. That is on my - you know, you made your list of artists. I'm not fancy enough to know exactly which artist, but if it's a cool impasto vibe thing that I can have on the wall at some point, that would be very nice. And my - I keep saying partner, she's actually my fiancé, which is quite exciting. she's an oil painter, but she doesn't do the impasto style. She does more traditional oil. I need to try and convince her to just throw it in much thicker chunks at the canvas, and then maybe she can solve my collection gap for me.
Tristanne Farrell: Nigel Mullins’ work is beautiful because he stretches outside of the frame and onto the frame. So it's got no boundaries. It's beautiful.
The Finance Ghost: Yeah, yeah.
Tristanne Farrell: Good taste.
The Finance Ghost: You see, that's a good example. If I could buy that, even if that thing just did inflation, actually, even if it just held its value, I wouldn't care, and I would probably never sell it, which is the point you make. And I love how Moe says no, he would sell the art. Ask Moe about his watches. Moe, how many watches have you sold? Please do tell us, for the listeners of Magic Markets, how many watches have you sold?
Mohammed Nalla: No comment.
The Finance Ghost: None! None. Thank you. I will not let you lie to the people.
Mohammed Nalla: That's why I won't comment, right? These are passion projects, right? Ghost, you've indicated classic cars. Tristanne’s spoken to us about art. Part of it's the investment narrative and part of it's the passion. And I say monetise it at R250k or whatever that Brett Seiler was going for. But the fact of the matter is, once you've lived with it on your wall, maybe you don't monetise it, because then it becomes something special to you. Maybe it's part of a bigger collection. I say, tongue-in-cheek, I'd like to monetise it. I think a lot of people listening to the show are looking at art as an investment, and maybe that's where you start your journey, or maybe it's the other way around. Maybe you start your journey as someone who buys something that resonates with you, with your soul. It's beautiful. You put it on the wall. Everyone's going to come at this from a different angle. I want to just backtrack a little bit, because I was chuckling when we were saying, you get an artist that gets themselves cancelled? Isn't that the purpose of art? Art is to get you to reflect. Art is to be controversial.
So I wouldn't necessarily shy away from that. I wouldn't necessarily see that as a bad thing, because what might antagonise a certain subset of collectors might actually incentivise another subset. That's the beauty of art, it's so subjective to a large degree. That's what I think I like about it.
Tristanne, in the interest of time, I just want to land on two critical things, because you certainly piqued my interest. I know a little bit about art, certainly not enough. Does Investec actually put out a newsletter that I can subscribe to that can educate me about some of the trends you're seeing, some of the artists? I'd love to learn more about the space, but I find it’s so tangential to what I do every single day that it's hard for me to go and find those resources. That's the first bit. And then the second bit is, why is Investec actually the sponsor of the Cape Town Art Fair at all? What's Investec’s involvement and interest in this space?
Tristanne Farrell: Yeah, so we don't - our primary business is finance, so it's not really the art world. We've just stretched into the art world through one of our key sponsorships. We do a lot in the sporting arena, too. What's really great about Investec is they involve the staff who have passion points in these areas to help them drive it. Obviously mine is the art passion point. We launched our podcast this year, which is a five-part series, Art in Focus. We speak to gallerists and artists just to extend the knowledge piece. We spoke about photography because a lot of people don't know how to invest in photography and what you look for. That was our small contribution. But then just before that, we decided to do gallery mornings at all the galleries with the young professionals base. All our banking clients that are lawyers, accountants, those type of people, we invited them to coffee and croissants at the galleries. The gallerists would invite the artists and people to just chat to them about their work. There was actually one guy who came to all of them. I was so impressed with him, and we invited him to the fair at the end of the day. But it's just really everyone who's wanting to extend their knowledge in that space. We do try and create small platforms to help them, but like I said, it's not really key to our whole business ecosystem.
This is the 12th edition of the fair. It's about the 8th edition for Investec Cape Town Art Fair. There were 124 galleries this year. I think we're struggling for space. We need to look at expanding it. It's growing at quite a pace. Over 500 artists represented, I think about 48 foreign galleries. It's the largest fair in Africa. We always say it brings the world to Africa and Africa to the world. For us, it's also bringing our clients together on a common passion. We have a lot of clients who collect art, invest in art, as you say. It's also very diverse. It's such a nice, diverse ecosystem to be in. There are young people, there are old people. There's anyone. And art is really for anyone.
The Finance Ghost: Yeah, and I would absolutely echo that. I was very lucky to attend the Biennale in Venice last year, just an epic experience, even for someone who knows dangerously little about art. Some of those exhibits were really, truly moving and very, very special. A lot of it relates to what's going on in the world at the moment. There are some very ugly things going on in the world. Art is a wonderful way to tell those stories.
The trick with the Biennale, of course, is its countries are exhibiting, so often what's going on with that country is what is reflected in the art. I think to those listening, go and look at art. Genuinely, I think it can do you no harm. Just open your mind to it a little bit. It's very easy to go down the route of, oh, what is this? It doesn't look like anything. I don't know what this is - but you don't have to like everything, and you definitely won't. But you're going to have a fun time.
Go check out the Investec Cape Town Art Fair. I go every year. It's a really, really fun day out. You only need a few hours to really get through the whole thing. Go and check it out. You’ve got nothing to lose. If you like something, buy it, put it on your wall. And you just never know hey, Tristanne, it could be that 8,000% return. How much more fun to make that from art than from shares in your portfolio?
Tristanne Farrell: Exactly. Something you can enjoy over the years as it appreciates. And then I just wanted to add on the end, sorry, we did actually an emerging artist prize. We were talking about investing in emerging talent. This year was the first year Investec actually sponsored an emerging artist prize just to show that we can back those young artists from day one. So the winner of that, I don't know if you saw, was Ben Stanwix and Xhanti Zwelendaba.
The Finance Ghost: Nice. Very cool. Any involvement in the space is great. As an Investec client, I love seeing what you guys are doing there. Well done and thank you for coming on Magic Markets to share more about that story.
We'll include a link to the Art in Focus podcast. As you said, it's five episodes that I think you presented there, so that's very cool. I've got the link open here on my screen, we'll include that in the show notes.
Tristanne, thank you for your time and just keep enjoying that passion of yours and sharing it with people, because I think it is an area of interest. There's that old joke - bankers talk about art and artists talk about money. I think it's very true, so keep doing what you do.
Tristanne Farrell: Very true. Thanks, Moe and Ghost. It's been great. And we'll see you all at the fair next year, February 2026.
The Finance Ghost: Yes, Moe, come visit from Canada and come look at art.
Mohammed Nalla: Yeah, you're gonna have to fly me across the world, right? I'm certainly gonna look into the space with a lot more interest. Tristanne, you've raised some very interesting points. I've been looking at it very casually. I'm going to go check out that Investec Focus podcast as a starting point for the education. I'm going to make little notes around the artists that you've indicated and let's keep an eye on them - I think it's a fantastic and fascinating space and maybe there's some scope for that fractional ownership thing down in South Africa. Like I say, I think it's seen success up here in North America. Accessibility in the investment space and just bringing people in that space is really quite important.
Unfortunately, that's all we've got time for this week. Let us know what you thought of the podcast. Hit us up on social media. It's at @MagicMarketsPod, @Finance Ghost and @MohammedNalla all on X. Go and check out the transcripts. We've got the links there for the Investec Focus podcast in there and if anyone's got any questions, again, reach out and I'm sure we'll be able to get Tristanne to look into some of those.
Until next week, same time, same place. Thanks and cheers.
The Finance Ghost: Ciao.
This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not financial or investment advice. Please speak to your personal financial advisor.
