Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: The markets, we just can't get enough of them.
[00:00:03] Speaker B: Markets are the drivers of your wealth and investment strategy.
[00:00:07] Speaker A: Welcome to Magic Markets with your co hosts, the finance Ghost and Mohammed Nalla.
[00:00:13] Speaker B: Together, we have more than 25 years of combined experience in the markets.
[00:00:17] Speaker A: For those looking to take their market and business knowledge to the next level, we offer Magic markets premium. Our recent research reports in magic markets premium have included technology giants like Netflix, Alphabet, and Amazon, as well as intel, as it fights back for a turnaround in the semiconductor industry. We've also covered wide moat players like Mastercard and Coca Cola, along with many, many more, all available for a subscription of 99 reals per month. Visit Magic Dash markets.com to take your investment knowledge to the next level. Welcome to episode 196 of Magic Markets, and what a crazy week it's been. It's like the news changes basically by the hour around what's going on in China. It's amazing how macroeconomics can sometimes be this kind of slow burn, and you look out for this long cycle, then other times you'll have an insane week where all these announcements come out and everyone just jumps on a bandwagon. And now, as we've seen with China, what went up can come down just as quickly. It's almost a buy the rumor, solid deal situation. The rumor of the stimulus was a lot sexier than the actual stimulus. But to help us unpack this today, mo, we've got Justin Brophy from an bro that is very familiar to the magic markets community. And just, it's great to have you on here. Thank you. Mo always fun to do this with you, obviously. And it's a macroeconomic show. Mo, so you must be particularly excited.
[00:01:38] Speaker B: Ghost I'm always excited here at magic markets. It's really fun having Justin Brophy on the show. You know, he's the head honcho at Anbro Capital. So go and check out Anbro. And again, we'll get into some very interesting stuff here, but let's jump into China because as we've indicated, China has been so interesting. I've been like a long suffering, I wouldn't say a China bull, but I've been less bearish on China than a lot of people out there in the market. And that was a difficult position to take. Over the course of the last two years, I mean, chinese stocks had sold off very aggressively then. They were just going sideways, actually going nowhere. And even if you looked at some of the larger names, if you looked at, you know, Alibaba, if you looked at Tencent, those stocks were really suffering as well. And this all the while China was really tweaking the types of policy they put in there. We know there's lots of structural challenges in the chinese economy, but very recently, in fact, just last week, a raft of stimulus measures came through from China. It caused a lot of excitement. If you just look at the MSCI China index, that actually gapped up around 50% from where it was trading. And then, as we indicated, this is very fluid news. But just yesterday we actually saw, in fact, in today's trade, we actually saw that sell off and we've seen around a ten to 12% sell off today at the time of this recording. So this may be some of that optimism starting to bleed back out of the market again, the market saying, is the stimulus really enough to change the story on China? So with that as a bit of the backdrop of why we're talking about China today, let's welcome Justin Brophy on the show because, Justin, I know you've got some fascinating insights to share with us.
[00:03:10] Speaker C: Thanks so much. It's so good to be here with you, ghost and Mo, and be back again with all the listeners on the podcast. And I agree. You know, China, when we spoke about this as a potential podcast, I just said to you, from our point of view, all I can give you is China through our eyes, what we're looking at, how we approach this, because it is a really fluid, changing position. What you said really August. So true. We had golden week in the last week where the stimulus was announced before that. This is a week long holiday in China. And this year is particularly interesting because it's 75 years of communist party rule. This is really supposed to be a really exciting, really big memorable point in time. And it's actually quite an interesting time. And interesting is quite scary at the moment because seeing a country which doesn't like to actually artificially prop up or try and provide even a little bit of assistance to poorer families, having to start looking at this in a really important way has led to some really interesting ups and downs.
[00:04:12] Speaker B: Yeah, indeed, Justin. I mean, that's really why we're talking about China today. It is effectively the world's second largest economy, around one and a half billion people. But over the course of the last several years, these structural imbalances have built up. We know the China of old was a resources led, infrastructure led growth model that changed as the chinese economy started to mature. You started to see a lot more emphasis on the consumption side of the economy, the services side starting to come through. But what has stood out for me is the fact that China is going through these structural changes and China is not afraid to experiment when it comes to the stimulus that they put through. You know, China initially, you know, was trying to support property market, and that led to these massive dislocations in the banking sector. And they're trying to grapple with that. They're also trying to grapple with something very interesting, which is the fact that a lot of chinese people were investing in the stock market. Then obviously with the pressure we've seen over the course of the last year, two years, effectively that interest has actually waned. You saw a lot more interest from chinese investors trying to get their money outside of China, and that led to other bubbles in other places. We saw a property bubble, for example, here in Canada, as many people saying that largely linked to chinese people trying to externalize their wealth. And so China's looking at this and they're saying, what do we need to do in order to build the kind of China that we want for the next 10, 20, 30 years? And I think that's really the framework within which China operates. And I'll go back to what I said initially, Justin, is that the Chinese don't hesitate to experiment. It's very much a policy of we'll take two steps forward, then one step back. We've seen this before. They provide stimulus, they provided certain regulatory changes and then let that run for a couple of months and then backtrack on that. And I think this is what's really caught a lot of western observers. You know, it's caught them afoul because they don't understand that dynamic of China. So I think let's use that as a launch pad in terms of what you've seen recently, how you've been reading the recent stimulus that has come through. Where is it coming from? What are the natural beneficiaries of that and what are some of the drawbacks?
[00:06:13] Speaker C: So let's go through it quick. I mean, looking at from a monetary policy point of view, we've seen the interest rate cuts, as you said, and they've cut these several times in 2024 trying to stimulate and make borrowing cheaper for both businesses and consumers. They've even gone to their reserve requirement ratio and said that banks themselves don't need to hold as much in reserve anymore to try and encourage more lending. And then they've obviously reduced mortgage rate reductions were definitely on the cards with regard to the property crisis. And this has also helped with regard to a lot of people who, when the economy contracted, they lost their jobs, etcetera. So this has helped the consumer a little bit. And they've also reduced the minimum down payment requirement for second homes to try and stimulate that. That's on the monetary policy side, on the fiscal side. You know, like you say, they're really not scared and they do have a decent balance sheet. So the government stepped up and allocated more funds for infrastructure projects, social welfare programs. This was the most interesting one, which I alluded to just now, which is where China believes that it is too young in terms of its current maturity as a nation to start building a big dependency or welfare program. They feel they can still grow and employ people in an economy that has space to grow rather than becoming supportive with a welfare system. At this stage, however, they were looking to give you an idea of something tangible. They were looking at giving a benefit or financial support to families that had more than two children. So this is also to try and stimulate population growth, get people thinking, you know, this is what we want. We want younger China, more children, more populous to grow into this growing economy. So that's taking it to a granular level. What they've also done is special bondage issuance. Government has issued special bonds to raise funds for investment in key sectors such as infrastructure and technology. Tax cuts and rebates. The government's provided tax breaks and rebates to businesses and individuals to encourage spending and investment. That's what the government's been trying to do with the funds they've managed to push through. They're really trying to support key industries such as electric vehicles, renewable energy and technology. An interesting fact and a funny fact. You are actually getting on a three year old electric car. You are getting a subsidy to buy a new one. So we all know about build your dreams bid in China, but literally three year old electric car, you could trade in and you'd get financial support to go and buy a new one. And even down to technology, where this was, I'm quoting the economist here. The economist said that you could even get a special deduction on buying electronic toilet seat, which they referred to as the bottom line. So that was quite an interesting one. In order to boost consumer confidence, government's also taken steps to improve consumer confidence by promoting domestic tourism and encouraging consumption. I don't know how you encourage consumption continually. And I think a lot of these measures that they're taking are ordinary sort of economic 101. But again, people are worried. I think there's a bigger depth of concern. We were talking about it a bit earlier, but I think these things are, again, they've got to be put through the economy. We've got to see what happens. They were well received before golden week. This week, however, it looks like there's less stimulus and less sort of continuation of that that seems to be coming through, and all of a sudden we've seen a retracement. So it's almost like the market wants a continuation of good news. What I can say in that that's quite interesting is, as investors, when we look at this kind of market, the first amount of stimulus that we've just spoken about, that monetary policy and fiscal policy that we spoke about, which was effectively a ₩1.95 trillion, or renminbi boost to the economy, led to around a 30% upside, and that was in the CSR 300 and China's main stock index. However, if you want to look to what it would take to grow the market from 30% to 40%, it would require, according to analysts, 3.8 trillion renminbi for an extra 10%. So it's expensive business to actually go out there and start to try and, you know, tweak your economy when there are some really interesting factors on the side. This whole time you've seen chinese property stocks falling in the background, and a lot of the stimulus should be helping a lot of that. Those are big guys who are building big housing estates, big infrastructure pieces, and those have carried on falling through this cutting cycle. Yeah.
[00:10:41] Speaker A: So China is just such a fascinating thing, and people have underestimated the extent to which they are trying to, or these, I think, trying to actually become more than just an outsourced factory for the west. So when I really saw it was at Lamar that I went to a few months ago, and for those not familiar, that's like the premier motorsport race in the world for motorsport manufacturers, even more so than Formula one. It's where they really test their technology that they're bringing to the road. And there was a build your dreams stand in the fan village in and amongst all the exotica, all of the big european names, there was this chinese vehicle stand. And I remember looking at this and thinking, these guys are serious. They're not just sitting there saying, we are some kind of really cheap and rubbishy alternative. This is a very serious attempt to come and take market share, and I'm very glad I saw that because I think it helped me stay out of the way of some of the horrors that we are seeing in european vehicle manufacturers at the moment. Brands like Stellantis and VW, it's all going pretty badly. So China can have this effect on the world. I mean, that's the reality. And as you say, that government stimulus, not just stimulus in the traditional monetary policy sense, but also their fiscal policies and how they go and drive an industry and how they go and target something that they believe they can grow into. So even if you aren't invested in China, this affects you. It's literally exactly like the US, right? It's like what the Fed does. It's going to make a difference to your stocks whether you are in China or not, right?
[00:12:03] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:12:03] Speaker B: I mean, just leveraging off that point. Ghost, you know, the BYD, I had the luxury of visiting their factory a couple of years ago and already back then we were looking at some of the concept vehicles. Really impressive stuff coming out of China. And it's not just in the EV space. I saw another very interesting chart which shows you that investment in property, effectively, Justin, you are referencing this investment in property, is actually down. Those property developers have really had a hard time. There's probably overcapacity reports of ghost cities in China, or even these unfinished condo developments that are absolutely massive, those being demolished. So I think property and the outlook for resources, for example, that's a lot more cloudy. But if you look at other sub industries, China's been making significant headway. Ghost, you mentioned the EV space, but if you look at solar panels, this is the chart that I saw recently was so interesting is China has been doubling down on its clean energy transition. They are producing tons and tons of clean energy. They are on track to surpass the west. They're already dominant in the solar panel manufacturing segment. And so I think it's a lot more nuanced than saying China is not trying to be the factory of the world. I think China will be the factory of the world for the foreseeable future. Yes. Some of that value chain is bleeding out to ancillary and neighboring economies. You're seeing some activity in Vietnam, you're seeing some in Thailand. But I think China is choosing where it wants to play. And this leads very nicely into the next talking point that I want to broach with you, Justin, is that as an investor in China, outside of China, what are you seeing as the opportunities? Because you don't necessarily have to be invested in the chinese stocks specifically. We know that you are global investors. You have exposure to global stocks. But we know from our own work at magic markets, premium global stocks are intrinsically linked to China. They have large exposures. So maybe talk us through what some of your exposures to China look like? Where are you seeing that? In either direct chinese stocks or even in stocks that are maybe european or us based. What's their exposure to China and what is your outlook specifically? Why are you involved or not involved in some of those names?
[00:14:02] Speaker C: Sure. I think that's a great place. In terms of our world's biggest brands portfolio, we've got a very high quality, diversified chinese exposure. It's around about 10% of the brand's portfolio. Just some interesting things. One of the defensive stocks we have in there, l'Oreal, traditionally makeup is a very defensive stock. Ladies that are out there, and perhaps some men as well, are very reluctant to give up makeup. They will give up a lot of things in life, but the last thing they'll give up if they don't have the money is makeup. And yet, to tell you how down the chinese market was, Loreal has got around a 70% exposure to China. When they came out and did their results, the results weren't too bad, but the forecast results, when the sort of management brought out the forecast results, they were concerned about China. Literally the stock just created after that. Now, that isn't something that normally happens on a defensive stock like that. Since the stimulus, we've seen in months to date up about, let's call it 3.5%, but it was literally down almost 13%. And that's a bleacher. Very stable, very defensive stock.
[00:15:07] Speaker A: All the jokes about them being worth it, obviously right themselves here, but at least they were worth it just before the stimulus, you know, a little 3.8%.
[00:15:14] Speaker C: Absolutely not sure if they're worth it, but anyway, that's, that's one of them. Nestle, 9% exposure. Nestle has had issues in the past with baby milks and all sorts of different pieces, but in China, what we were looking at there is year to date also down, and we're not sure yet. We've dug into that a little bit, but we're waiting to see what's happened there. Months to date is only down about six. So we have seen some little bit of bounce there in our portfolio and brands as well. Obviously, you've got the 100% chinese sort of stocks, things like Tencent, broad based tech and similar to WhatsApp, with a bit of a banking overlay in it and a little bit of an Amazon type service. Year to date up 64%. Month to date, 31% of that 64. So stimulus certainly helped there. And I think the returning chinese investor and coming back to their own market also helped with that. I'd be interested to see by the end of this conversation where we go by the end of this week what that looks like. Alibaba also, year to date, this one's fascinating. Year to date, up 51% of that. The last month, 45%. So the stimulus has really helped the chinese stocks there.
[00:16:21] Speaker A: What's that story about not timing the market? What's that whole. It's not, it's not timing the market, it's time in the market. But Alibaba, 45%.
[00:16:28] Speaker C: Yeah, here we go. Exactly. And just don't miss that month. Hi. And smart home. The Chinese really like having integrated technology in their homes and they've got really good access to it, whether it's, you know, what mo was alluding to with regard to solar all the way through technology in the home. I mean, year to date, 61% up, month to date, 47% up. So, I mean, something like that really benefits from stimulus. You know, where people can do things in their home, add things, one that's a bit closer to home that maybe a lot of people do or don't know. Pinga on insurance Discovery actually has a stake in that. And recently I heard that a very good friend of mine bumped into some of the management of discovery and they were very excited about how Ping an is actually doing, you know, on the insurance side. That's long term insurance, it's life, and there really is a buy in for that. And so again, what you're seeing there is quite a defensive sort of approach. We do have other stocks in it, but just giving that piece and then to the one we've spoken about quite a lot, bid, which is build your dreams, which is probably Tesla's biggest competitor globally, they have very similar cars, they do very similar things in terms of range, speed, etcetera, and they're both high quality cars. Bid is up 53% this year. Now, that's obviously a combination of key industry support by government and also the recent return of the chinese investor to their local market. A good friend of mine was every single year he goes into China to see his suppliers and a year ago he told me, what are you on about with electric cars and everything like that? One year later this year, he was shocked. He said, almost every single car you see, the taxis are Teslas. And he said, everybody's driving biddenness, or I think the other one is called Nio. And there's even in the UK now we've got one, I'll get it wrong, it's called Amoda or Amada.
[00:18:24] Speaker A: Now we've got that too. I think it's part of Haveal. I stand to be corrected.
[00:18:28] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it is. I think it's another chinese electric.
[00:18:31] Speaker A: And, Justin, the chinese cars here are everywhere. Hey, I don't know when last you were back in South Africa, but they are. If I walk out into my complex now, I would say 30% of this car park is chinese. It's as much as that. Maybe 20%.
[00:18:44] Speaker C: Another interesting thing on that, you know, ghost, when you look at vehicles, I was listening to the longevity of hybrids, because obviously, you know, I sit here in Oxford, we got a lot of electric car charging facilities. You literally go around the corner. I think Mohammed's probably the same in Canada and the States. Pretty easy. China as well. When you look at South Africa, it's a lot like when we think of Africa or Asia, I mean, I can hear my dad talking and saying, are you ever going to have electric cars, South Africa, with regards to the size of the country and the distances we travel. What was interesting was recently guys were talking about longevity in the ice space, the internal combustion engine space, and they were saying that in China, Japan, Korea, etcetera, a lot of the hybrids there can actually do longer drive on the batteries that they hold. So they are true hybrids in that they are quasi electric, they have bigger batteries, they are doing distances of, say, 60 miles, etcetera. It's just a fascinating sort of moment, because I think cars are just moving. You're going to get hybrids, new cars and electric cars, and China is dominant in electric cars. To finish the story of my mate Grant, he said, when he went out with the suppliers for dinner, they said to him, we weren't really good at ice. You know, your internal combustion engine cars. That was Volkswagen, Mercedes. He said, but we can build electric cars. And it was an interesting statement. It stuck with me because they really can. And I think people are going to be surprised by the quality of the cars that are coming through.
[00:20:08] Speaker B: I just want to jump in here, Justin, because while we're talking electric cars, it's really so important to just distinguish. One important thing is a stock like build your dreams. BYD, you indicated was up around 50%, then thereabouts. And again, a lot of that related to some of the stimulus that has come through. What's remarkable for me is just the fact that some of this is also directly related to what was overly bearish sentiment on China as a whole. BYD has been making significant headway internationally now, yes, it is causing some friction points. We're seeing the stories around the EV tariffs in the US. You're seeing some of that emerge from Europe as well. But the Chinese are not sitting still. You know, if you look at some of the chinese involvement, they're actually going out and they're buying some of the european manufacturers and using that as the backdoor into those markets that are trying to close down. And to your point, around the technology and how far the technology has come, it's very ironic for me that, you know, western countries are out there speaking about this transition. They're talking about EV's and clean energy, but China seems to be the country that's doing the heavy lifting and they're the ones that are literally leaps and bounds ahead of their US and european competitors. We have the luxury of comparing, or I certainly have the luxury of comparing against all of the north american brands. And I can tell you hands down, I've seen the chinese EV's. They are significantly better in terms of quality. We're not just talking range, we're talking quality, the aesthetic. They are significantly better than the western incumbents. And that's what I think has western policymakers scared. It's also why you've got to look at something like BYD and say, yes, there's the western markets, but they also have this natural pent up demand coming from China domestically. And that is why you can't write off some of these companies, some of these chinese stocks.
[00:21:46] Speaker C: Absolutely. And I think people need to take into account that what a motor vehicle is, is changing. You know, it's a data capturing machine now, and there's a whole new world of technology coming out of that. And what you also have is you have a totally different sort of consumer of the vehicle because the technology that's in the car is going to become game changing when we move to things like Robo taxi, which bid is actually working, it sounds like bid and Tesla are always in competition, which they are, but there's actually some things actually work on together. And when you look at stuff like the robo taxi idea, bid is not far behind Tesla with that as well. And that is an idea where you can have a car and while you're at work, it's out earning you money because it's a bit like an Uber. It's out, you know, doing trips for people and fetching it. Now, the last point I'd make on electric cars is, I would tell you from personal point of view now, I would say that a BYD and a Tesla are pretty much on parental in terms of cars. I've got a Tesla and I've got mates who have got Teslas and I've got other mates now. One of them's actually got a build your dreams car. And the differences are just frightening. You know, you don't have to. I've got a mate who's done 39,000 miles in his Tesla and didn't need to be serviced, has any brakes and doesn't need tyres. So he phoned them, he said, look, I'm a bit worried. It's been almost three years. Do I not need a service? This car? And the problem with that is your big competitors, your Volkswagens, BMWs, Mercedes, they produce electric cars that are really like us cars with electric motors. They've got to be serviced every single year to keep up their infrastructure, pay for the infrastructure that exists and the jobs and pieces. So I think there's a secondary wave that Europe's probably also something you'd worry about, and the states, which is jobs in that space, you know, once you've built an electric car, there's not a lot to do to maintain that thing as it goes. So that is an interesting piece for longer term, just carrying on a little bit. In terms of brands, our exposure, we feel, is nicely spread across insurers, big banks, EV consumer, discretionary, tech, consumer spend and the likes of Alibaba, Tencent and also PDD, which owns a south african growing favorite, which is Timu. Timu is also going to be a big disruptor. I think whether or not Timu delivers what it says in the picture, I think that's up to the consumer, but we'll see what comes through in TMU, but that's out there as well. And then lastly, in our dynamic compounding portfolio, your big sort of houses like your hale ons or wreck it Bensica, who own a lot of, whether they're cleaning agents or cleaning products or big brands that you would find in your grocery cupboard, a lot of these have also been down year to date or recently in the last month, if we break them down, records on the year has been down. Based on their chinese exposure, they got around a 6% exposure to the chinese market. Month to date they picked up thanks to the stimulus Danone, which is we all know as South Africans and around the world, in terms of dairy based products, they've actually had a good year. They're up 27%, but months to date, suddenly they're down as well, based on the consumer and based on their exposure, which is 9% to China. Lastly, Haleian, also a sort of conglomerate of grocery and cleaning products. You look at them year to date, up 21%. Suddenly after the stimulus piece, they're down around 3%. So while some of these stimulus measures have helped to stabilize the economy and improve market sentiment, some of the economists have expressed concerns that the stimulus may not be enough to address the underlying structural problems in the chinese economy. And I think to that I would make the point that we're going to have to see what these measures are like. And to your point, and Mo, I'd love to finish by getting your input here. I like the fact that they can move quickly, but I don't know if western investors like that fact, if you know what I mean. You know, they might want a more consistent theme or talk up dovish or a hawkish stance. What do you think?
[00:25:47] Speaker B: I mean Justin, I think that really hits the nail on the head is that all of the conversations I have up here in North America really center around this difficulty to try and perceive what the Chinese are doing. It's very different. And I always say to investors, I always say you can't apply a western lens when looking at China. China operates differently. There's a very different culture, a very different tradition around how things are done. And that filters through into policy implementation. And that is why you see this massive divergence, even amongst the largest asset managers. You've got some saying China's uninvestable, we can't do it. You've got others saying China's still one of the best investment opportunities out there and doubling down. And that divergence is really related to how Westerners conceptualize the chinese approach to policy. Where I will land on this and try and attempt to answer your question is that if you are an investor in China, you've got to be prepared for this very different approach towards policy implementation. You've got to really take a super long term view. And I don't mean this in this, when I say this to western investors talking about global markets, you know, the US, Europe, if I say a long term view, five years is a very long term. When you're talking China, you've got to take a 1020 and 30 year view. And ironically, just given the structure of capital markets, that's very difficult for most investors to do unless you're talking to a pension fund. And even when you're talking to pension funds and institutional money, it's very difficult for them to say, we're going to take a ten year long term view on China. And that is why I think you see these dislocations. It's also why you see the massive short term volatility like we've seen right now is that the market tends to get overly bearish. You get the same thing filtering through from institutions into retail investors. And then when you see this capitulation as it would be perceived in the west, a capitulation in terms of policy, you see these knee jerk reactions. And for patient investors, that's fantastic, because a conversation I literally had around two to three weeks ago, I was saying, I think China is still compelling. I've not been a China bear. And the question I got is, yes, but what's the catalyst to unlock some of this value? And the short answer is, I didn't have the answer because you could wait a year, two, three years before you see that chinese catalyst materialize. It's when it makes sense for what China wants to do with its society, with its structure of the economy and so forth. And so it's very difficult to pin those questions, to say, this is your catalyst and you're going to get it within the next year because you might have to wait and be very patient. And that's where I land on this, is if you are an investor in China or if you're investing in global stocks with exposure to China, it's really got to take a super long term lens if you're hoping to achieve long term beneficial and sustainable results.
[00:28:23] Speaker C: I would agree. And I would also add to that that we say China's uninvestable. I think for me and Craig and Lloyd, as the team behind our portfolios, China's unavoidable.
You have to be someone who goes and looks and says, where are those long term investments? A good one we've banged on about today has been bidden. You know, if you looked at bid five years ago and you look at bid today, it's quite frightening. They're probably the dominant EV maker in the world right now.
Lastly, what I'd finish with is in our brands portfolio we also have Kuitao Mutao, which is a special chinese drink. It's huge as a beverage if you go, if you haven't heard of it. And the most interesting thing I'll leave you with is generally it's something that is drunk around successful deals or successful moments in companies. It has not performed that well in the last six to twelve months. And it's interesting because we know the analyst in China who actually covers this for Bloomberg, and she was telling us that they watch this as almost like a bit of a thermometer on the chinese economy. And hopefully it has started to turn now. So we'll be watching Kwita Muta.
[00:29:30] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. That really is great. That's such a fun place to end the show, actually. Just thank you so much. We've learned a lot about China. We've learned that I was right about Tesla and that I have lots of competitors one day. I'm just kidding. Was I not kidding? It's been a really fun show and I think it talks to the diversification in the portfolios that you guys run as well, the direct and indirect exposure to China. So thank you for just sharing all of those insights with us. It's always lovely to have you on the show and we wait and see what the next step is in this magical chinese stimulus journey. Because honestly, who knows? By the time we release the show later this week, it might be different again. So let's see what happens. Markets are never boring, especially in China. For people who take decades to plan, they sure know how to change a lot of things in one week. And so we'll leave it there. Just thanks so much for joining us, Mo. We'll do this again next week.
[00:30:14] Speaker B: Indeed. Always fun, Justin. And again, for investors looking to find the Anbro team to pick their brain, they're very approachable. You can find them at www. Dot Anbro dot co. You can find the team, reach out to them. You can also find the information on the various portfolios that Justin has spoken about and we hope you've enjoyed the show. Until next week, same time, same place. Thanks and cheers. Ciao.
[00:30:34] Speaker A: This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not financial or investment advice. Please speak to your personal financial advisor.
